@rysiek What did I miss? Seems at least the server repo has been updated - about time!

@rysiek Hmm. Mixed feelings about this one... In your opinion, is this an all-bad thing or are there some uptakes to it?

@h3artbl33d look, I recognize that many places in this world have no reasonable banking services available, and that a lot of people have no access to digital payments that would otherwise make their lives better.

If you ever tried sending any money to Africa, or, you know, between EU and US, you know what I mean here.

At the same time, Signal Desktop remains crap ("optimizing database" ⏳, and then words appear seconds after I type them) and Signal mobile tends to fall minutes behind Desktop.

@h3artbl33d plus, there are no Signal clients for a number of privacy-friendly platforms (SailfishOS, postmarketOS, Librem5, PInePhone, or you know: any mobile OS that is not Android or iOS).

*And* moxie refuses to federate because "too much work to keep up".

Dunno, maybe instead of going full crypto Signal could fix Desktop (and drop Electron in the process), and write a client for at least one non-duopolistic mobile platform?

@rysiek @h3artbl33d when we were doing Ubuntu Phone, Signal was actively hostile to us making a client.

...reason we ended up with good Telegram support.

@ted @rysiek @h3artbl33d as I understand it any signal client not built by the signal team is against their terms of service.

So if you got a 3rd party signal client that works it only works because they didn't bother blocking it yet.

@rune @ted @rysiek @h3artbl33d show me where in the signal terms of service it says this please.

@sneak @ted @rysiek @h3artbl33d Well, as it turns out I can't find any terms of service on using the server directly 🤷

But Moxie has many times expressed not wanting 3rd party clients using their branding OR service. Even if they're unmodified builds made by f-droid...




@sneak @rysiek @h3artbl33d The LibreSignal README also completely echoes @ted's experience of being willing to do all the work to support a new platform and being shut down devastatingly.


@rune @sneak @h3artbl33d @ted yes, they will weaponize trademark laws and whatever else they can to push third party client developers away.


@rysiek @sneak @h3artbl33d @ted Which makes me wonder. What happens when they decide to do something terrible in the client?

That's right. Everyone has to move to a new messenger again because changing the client isn't possible.

Signal is effectively a "source available" project that sometimes accepts PR's.

Sure, it's technically open source, but nobody is going to use your fork after Moxie tells you to go host your own Signal Server.

@rune @sneak @h3artbl33d @ted any apparently-FLOSS server-client project that uses the Network Effect to wall users in is effectively a source-available project.

@rune @rysiek @sneak @h3artbl33d @ted I hosted my own signal server and sideloaded it into a custom apk. It is really hard to get others to use your apk.

Jami has the opendht and turn server available in the advanced UI. Still hard for a tech newbie, but at least it doesn't require sending someone a sketch unsigned appstore package.

Frustrating experience.

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